Thoughts in a Haystack

Just as the Communist regime that enforced Lysenkoism proved that dogma is a better way of understanding reality than science.

Or not.
 

Of course, other institutions can engage in the same sort of behavior. But religions have a longer, more consistent track record at it.
 

We can surely expect to hear from those who complain about the expelling of people for holding unapproved ideas.

TomS
 

Agreed that the case you highlight is ridiculous, but disagree with the generalization at the end -- some religions have fostered inquiry in general and science in particular.

And since religions are arguably the oldest of all human institutions, their track records -- whatever the topic -- will tend to be longer.
 

... some religions have fostered inquiry in general and science in particular.

Sometimes some members of some religions foster inquiry but other members will fight them with political weapons. In the end, dogma almost always wins within the religion (until it gets changed, of course). (Disclaimer: I don't know Budhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. well enough to know if the generalization holds for them.)

And since religions are arguably the oldest of all human institutions, their track records -- whatever the topic -- will tend to be longer.

Yes, I was specifically thinking of that point and almost put it in but decided to go with a more simple formulation. Whatever the reason, religions do have a longer track record of it ... and have gone longer doing it without giving it up.
 

Eh -- I'm hoping this response makes sense, and I also want to say I really enjoy your blog and share your pro-science views.

There are fights in religious institutions just as in any other institutions. And I would go further, to venture to say that the process of fighting over dogma is universal: even when other institutions don't call certain unquestionable assertions "dogma," I can't think of any community that doesn't have statements that work essentially like dogma, where those statements are presumed to have binding powers on the community and where dissenters become political targets. Part of what makes communities cohere are those sets of shared assumptions about the way things are supposed to be.

But if we're both saying some religious people use dogma as a political weapon, but then dogma itself changes in response to other pressures (as you wrote, "until it gets changed"), then maybe we're not disagreeing here quite as much I thought.

I think one of the things that often gets forgotten in discussions about the supposed inflexibility of religion is the reality of how dramatically the practice and interpretations in religions change over time. Which is probably why religions are such longterm cultural survivors.

Thanks for all the work you do on this blog. I refer people to it regularly.
 

Yes, dogma evolves. And you're right that some nonreligious communal values approach being dogma but religions are more resistant to that evolution and are notably different from the institution of science and the community of scientists.

Thanks for the references.
 

La Sierra University* should always be referred to with an asterisk to indicate it isn't a real school.

*Sunday School (or should that be "Saturday School?").
 

La Sierra’s board of trustees last week unanimously voted to endorse Adventist beliefs that the world was created in six 24-hour days...

PE's article didn't quite get it right. The Board affirmed or reaffirmed the schools position to uphold the Adventist belief on origins.

The university has always endorsed the Adventist Church's position. Obviously, some employees disagree with it.

However, this is not an issue of evolution vs. creation. No one is asking that evolution not be taught. This is simply a church employee policy matter. The fact that the content regards evolution and creationism is probably what makes it more sensational than if these professors were misrepresenting the church on any other matter.

True or false, disagree or agree, it is unethical to openly negate your employer while on the clock. How long would a Pepsi employee stay employed if he was promoting Coca-Cola while he was at work? Evolution and creation are practically irrelevant to the core issue -- employee misrepresenting employer.
 

The fact that you think that scholars at a university should be held to the standards of Pepsi employees says much about your understanding of education. Universities are supposed to be where independant scholars interact with each other and students in open inquiry so that all may learn.
 

John:

Are you suggesting that professors at any university have unlimited academic freedom? Can you give me a list of 10 universities where professors are allowed to teach whatever they want without any interference from administration? I'd be interested in personally contacting these universities. I think absolute academic freedom is an ideal that has seldom been achieved if ever.

Universities are businesses too. Whether we like it or not, there are limits on academic freedom.

I agree that universities should be a place for scholars and students to interact in open inquiry; however, my understanding is that the academic freedom for any professor has its limits. Also, private religious universities, whether you agree with what they are teaching or not, have the right to teach whatever they want and only hire professors that support their aims. This is America after all. People are free to teach and learn whatever they want.

You may disagree with creationists, but hope you can't disagree with their right to teach what they want at their own university.

A similar thing occurs at public universities, but I imagine the constraints on academic freedom differ.
 

Are you suggesting that professors at any university have unlimited academic freedom?

There's a big difference between minimally limited (especially when tenured) academic freedom and a Pepsi employee's right to freely express his opinion about colas or sodas in general. Your analogy remains either lame or symptomatic or your misunderstanding of what education is.

You may disagree with creationists, but hope you can't disagree with their right to teach what they want at their own university.

I have the right to disagree with their use of the term "university." If creationists want to own a school that teaches their religious beliefs either exclusively or in preference to real scholarship, they should call it what it really is: a seminary.
 

John:

There is an obvious difference between academic freedom and the freedoms of a Pepsi employee. I don't dispute that.

I only use the Pepsi illustration to demonstrate the business side of a university. Of course the two do not function the same, I readily admit to that. The point I was attempting to make is that an organization has the right to ensure its employees support the objectives of the organization.

Perhaps you disagree with this. At any rate, I originally only wanted to clarify that LSU has always officially endorsed the church's position despite professors who disagree with it.

Mind you I'm not against the theory of evolution being taught. I think it should be taught; however, the church's interpretation of the data should also be taught.

Thanks for being cordial.
 

The point I was attempting to make is that an organization has the right to ensure its employees support the objectives of the organization.

And, according to you, the business of Adventist "universities" is not education but proselytization.

Mind you I'm not against the theory of evolution being taught. I think it should be taught; however, the church's interpretation of the data should also be taught.

I'd have a lot more respect for that position if evolution was taught in science classes and the church's position was taught in religion classes, instead of (if you get your way) muddled together.
 

Da kann ich nur zustimmen..
 

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