Thoughts in a Haystack

That study is behind a paywall. If anyone has access to it, I would greatly appreciate a copy.

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But that could be used against pushing science at all, since a whole lot of people's cherished beliefs involve belief in Biblical myths.

Still, I'm not arguing that "accommodationist" viewpoints might not at least convince some that would not be convinced by the "New Atheist" approach. I've always thought that was likely, since you're not stomping over all of their preferences and egos.

It's just that the study suggests that convincing people against their cherished beliefs (and the most coherent -- because the only -- worldview they know) is problematic regardless of one's approach.

One would like to think that the attempts to elevate ID/creationism to the level of science would indicate science in general is not being devalued by those pseudoscientists. Unfortunately, since ID and much of the rest of creationism really intends to substitute a sort of "true science" for meaningful science, it seems to be playing directly from the script of denying science as impotent (unable or unwilling to consider the "supernatural") against the theists' "far better methods."

Glen Davidson
 

against the theists' "far better methods."

Certain theists' "far better methods," that is.

As long as they're willing to let science investigate any and all phenomena, I have little quarrel with theists.

What I'd give to the "New Atheists" is the fact that really quite a lot of theists are not comfortable with neuroscience's findings, or with its (apparent) potential. What I'd take away from them again, though, is that there is rarely a coherent, concerted, or obviously threatening stance taken against neuroscience by the sort who accept evolution.

Mostly, they're just biased against what threatens the "specialness" of "mind" or some such thing, and at worst are passive drags on explanations for "mind" coming from science. For instance, Francis Collins evidently takes the view that properties of "mind" are beyond science, yet I've heard nothing about his opposing research into neuroscience.

I suspect that he just thinks that "free will" or some such thing just won't be made implausible by science, while I'm quite sure that it already has been.

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I haven't had a chance to read it all yet but one thing it notes is:

Source derogation, for example, might be less effective in response to scientific than nonscientific information. Scientific information is not usually presented in the form of an obvious persuasion attempt like many kinds of nonscientific information (e.g., advertisements, newspaper editorials, legal arguments, political debates). Thus, a blatant agenda is not often associated with the source of scientific information, especially because scientific researchers usually maintain (in their research reports, at least) a somewhat detached and dispassionate stance from their work.

If science is presented (especially by openly atheistic scientists) as religion-killing, that licenses a theist to treat science as just another social/political/theological position with no particular claim to objectivity. Now this might not be enough to make a difference in any one person but over time and many people it could.
 

Scientific information is not usually presented in the form of an obvious persuasion attempt like many kinds of nonscientific information (e.g., advertisements, newspaper editorials, legal arguments, political debates).

Hence the absence of "thus you and your friends are demonstrably wrong/deluded" from the conclusions of most scientific papers. Scientific information should inform political debate (and the populace, who should be paying attention), but unless we wish to require that politicians be scientists (heaven[sic] forbid, given my experience of university politics), we'd best be prepared to attempt to integrate the scientific with the "non-scientific". Of course, it's really a human problem - the rest of the universe doesn't give a fig.
 

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