Saturday, November 02, 2013


The Density of Belief

Bryan Fischer, in a crowded field of Religious Right leaders who are hateful, illogical and, ultimately, completely divorced from reality, stands out as a leader of the pack.

In one of his latest, Fischer tells a caller, self-identified as a "non-practicing homosexual," that homosexuality "is a matter of choice." Then it gets interesting:
Caller: Could you have sex with a man?

Fischer: I'm sorry?

Caller: Could you have sex with a man?

Fischer: Would I?

Caller: Could you?

Fischer: [Derisively] No.

Caller: I thought it was a choice?

Fischer: Sure it is, I'm just saying it's emotionally, morally, mentally impossible for me—

Caller: But you just told me that you couldn't do it?

Fischer: Yeah, I couldn't do it, there was no way; there is nothing in me that would let me do that ...

Caller: OK. How do you think I feel about women?

Fischer: I don't know. How do you feel about women?

Caller: There ain't no way.
Fischer then switches the subject back to haranguing the "non-practicing homosexual" about abstinence and chastity, completely missing the point Fischer has just admitted: that sexual orientation is not a choice.

The density of his beliefs (in all senses of the word) prevent him from even listening to himself.

Via Right Wing Watch

Head, nail.
In addition, even if homosexuality were a choice then neiter a bigot like Fischer nor some dead guys who wrote an incoherent book some 20-26 centuries ago have the right to prevent me to dive into bed with whomever I prefer to (provided it's a consenting adult), male or female.
Choice or not, my middle finger is the only reaction Fischer gets.
Back in pre-history (70s), this argument, along with the observation that no one would choose to be ostracized, ridiculed, and degraded, convinced me that sexual orientation was *not* a choice.
The first question to ask these people is when exactly did you "choose" to a heterosexual? When did you as a boy "choose" to be interested in girls rather than other boys or as a girl "choose" to be interested in boys rather than other girls?
Yes. But if you want to be fair you'll have to ask my father as well. You see, he was gay (I am very fond of his most important male partner), still conceived three kids and slept with one or two women after his divorce.
Apparently he had a choice.
Btw how does this relate to your non-materialism and free will ideas? Does Homo Sapiens suddenly not have a choice hence not so much have a free will when it comes to sex?
S**t again. The comment above is mine.
Exactly so. There was a point in my life where I suddenly realized girls were more - interesting - than I had thought before. There was no conscious choice involved at all. I'm sure it was the same for Fischer

Actually, the more interesting question is whether people like Fischer could choose to be something other the sanctimonious, posturing, bigoted idiots that they appear to be.

I did think about going into that but thought it would obscure the point of Fischer's admission. That was the reason I italicized "sexual orientation," however. Human actions are the result of complex influences. People who are oriented to one sort of sexual expression can engage in another under certain influences or stresses, such as being thrown into single sex environments (the old army, prison) or the social pressure to conform (to marry and have children). And, of course, there is bisexuality. I hasten to add that, not knowing your father, I have no idea what might have influenced him.

Fischer is trivially correct that humans can choose not to have sex at all ... though rarely successfully without other consequences. But he and his ilk are spectacularly wrong that being gay is a "lifestyle choice" that can be changed like a T-shirt.
I think the best way to get people to think about it is this: What would the world look like if people really could choose who they were attracted to? What if attraction was simply a matter of choice and willpower?

I can think of a few things: Divorce would be much lower. Cheating would be limited to sociopaths. Arranged marriages would be the norm and uncontroversial.

Because if you think attraction is a choice, nothing we've written about love, desire, romance etc. in the last 5,000 years should make a lick of sense to you.
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